Legislature(1995 - 1996)
03/27/1995 03:40 PM Senate RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SRES - 3/27/95
SB 69 REPORTING OF HAZARDOUS SUBSTANCE
CHAIRMAN LEMAN brought up SB 69 as the next order of business
before the Senate Resources Committee. The chairman informed
members that the committee was working on version G. The chairman
asked for a motion to adopt the committee substitute.
SENATOR TAYLOR made a motion to adopt the committee substitute for
SB 69.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN, hearing no objection, stated the committee
substitute had been adopted. The chairman asked Ms. Kreitzer to
review the changes made to SB 69.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN called an at ease.
ANNETTE KREITZER, Aide to the Senate Resources Committee, testified
for Senator Leman, prime sponsor of SB 69. Ms. Kreitzer noted that
a fax from Rita Venta listing the types of chemicals addressed by
SB 69 has been distributed to committee members. Concerns raised
by the LEPC Association have also been included in members'
packets. There is also an additional fiscal note from DEC, even
though the department already has the responsibility of mailing out
tier II forms. Ms. Kreitzer reiterated that SB 69 would remove the
placarding program from the State Fire Marshal's Office. There
isn't a lot of support for that program, so SB 69 deals mostly with
changes to current law regarding the municipal placarding program
under Title 29.
MS. KREITZER noted that one change in the committee substitute is
the ability for SERC and a municipality to delete substances from
these lists. SB 69 will actually lessen the reporting
requirements. There will be no additional reporting requirements.
Number 510
SENATOR TAYLOR asked Ms. Kreitzer, "since we've got this thing in
front of us, why don't we do something meaningful by taking out
some of these things that may not have any significant value to
being reported in the first place." Senator Taylor thinks there
are a lot of things listed as hazardous substances, which he does
not think should be considered hazardous substances.
MS. KREITZER replied that is exactly what they tried to do here.
The requirements that are here are federal requirements, with the
exception of paragraph (2) on page 3. Ms. Kreitzer stated that SB
69 contains a figure of 500 pounds, instead of the federal
requirement of 10,000 pounds, because that was the figure favored
by the Municipality of Anchorage and fire departments around the
state, due to population density. However, there are exclusions
for urea and other fertilizers. The idea was to stick with the
federal requirements, and not impose additional reporting
requirements on facilities.
SENATOR TAYLOR asserted that additional reporting requirements are
being imposed by the language in paragraph (2) on page 3.
MS. KREITZER responded that "500 pounds" is the language already in
current law. We are not changing what the legislature passed back
in 1986 or 1987. At that time, there was also a requirement that
facilities report a consumer commodity of hazardous material in a
quantity of more than 1,000 pounds. That was meant to get at the
Fred Meyer's, the Walmarts, and the K-Marts. As with a gunshop,
fire departments ought to know that those stores have weedkiller,
and all those other types of things.
SENATOR TAYLOR stated he would like to see a listing of hazardous
wastes. [He finds a list in his bill packet, and questions the
different quantities listed.]
MS. KREITZER replied that the amounts Senator Taylor is questioning
are federal RCRA (Resource Conservation & Recovery Act) reporting
requirements. That information is already required to be reported.
What we are trying to do by sticking with the federal definitions
is to allow facilities to use just one form when reporting. Right
now, reporters are required to provide information in four
different formats, under four different laws. We are trying to
streamline the process.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked Senator Taylor if he understands that they are
just trying to coordinate state requirements with the federal
requirements, in order to streamline reporting.
SENATOR TAYLOR said all he is trying to do is show the committee
that we are 20 times higher in our reporting requirements than the
federal government. This is hardly reasonable, and he does not
care, if that is what the Anchorage Fire Department wants to
establish. Senator Taylor thinks the federal form is more than
adequate. He asked why we would want to impose a burden like that
on our own people.
MS. KREITZER reiterated that the Municipality of Anchorage and the
Anchorage Fire Department support maintaining the 500 pound
quantity, because of population density.
SENATOR TAYLOR said he wants to hear whether the business people
who have to go through a reporting process at a rate 20 times
higher than the federal requirement would support that.
MS. KREITZER responded she has also worked with Unocal, BP,
Alyeska, and ARCO, and they felt that 500 pounds was a reasonable
amount to have to report. Those companies were also instrumental
in the development of SB 69.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked if he had 500 pounds of salt if he would have
to report it.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN replied he would not.
SENATOR HALFORD asked how SB 69 would affect a substance consisting
of a mixture of chemicals listed.
MS. KREITZER thinks that under Tier II reporting requirements,
mixtures must be reported. She knows that there has been confusion
on that point, so she will let Ms. Stevens address that.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked Ms. Stevens if she would like to respond to
Senator Halford's question.
SENATOR HALFORD restated his question: when you have something on
this list that says the reportable quantity is "any", and that item
is a part of a compound in a common mixture, does that mean that
has to be placarded?
CHAIRMAN LEMAN gave acetone cyanohydrin as an example.
Number 415
CAMILLE STEVENS, Department of Environmental Conservation,
responded her program does not deal with placarding.
MS. KREITZER asked if it would have to be reported under Emergency
Planning Committee right to know.
MS. STEVENS asked if Senator Halford is looking at the Tier II
list.
SENATOR HOFFMAN replied it is Anchorage's list.
MS. STEVENS stated it is her understanding that the Anchorage list
is a little bit different from the Tier II list. DEC's program
operates under the federal law. The Tier II reportable substances
are MSDS (material safety data sheet) chemicals. The extremely
hazardous substances are a subset of that. With the MSDS
substances, quantities 10,000 pounds and over would be reportable
on the Tier II form. If it is an EHS (Extremely Hazardous
Substance), it has a reportable quantity established by the EPA
under regulations. She couldn't tell Senator Halford exactly what
is reportable, substance by substance. She would have to look at
the EHS list.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked Ms. Stevens to look at page 10 on the list.
Senator Taylor asserted that 500 pounds of kerosene should not have
to be reported: it is not an uncommon item in Alaska. Senator
Taylor also listed lacquer thinner and lacquers, liquified natural
gas, and liquified petroleum gas. He thinks every damn trailer
house in his town would have to report. How many pounds do those
tanks hold?
MS. KREITZER responded the placarding program is only applicable to
businesses. It is not applicable to residences.
SENATOR TAYLOR thinks it would be applicable to anyone with a park
in Anchorage.
MS. KREITZER replied if it is an underground storage tank, they
must already report under the UST program.
SENATOR TAYLOR noted most compressed natural and petroleum gas is
above ground.
SENATOR FRANK asked about propane.
SENATOR TAYLOR responded that's what it is.
SENATOR HALFORD commented that the fire marshal wants them
underground, and the EPA wants them above the ground.
SENATOR TAYLOR stated propane is liquified petroleum gas, found on
page 11. You can't have more than 500 pounds without placarding
it.
SENATOR TAYLOR noted that on page 12, naphtha coal tar, naphtha
petroleum, and naphtha solvent have to be reported. He does not
know of very many mechanical places that don't have those.
SENATOR HALFORD noted that tetra ethyl lead is also on the list.
That is an element of one gallon of regular gas. It says "any."
MS. KREITZER replied this is current law; these people have been
reporting under this law.
SENATOR HALFORD stated, "No they haven't."
CHAIRMAN LEMAN noted they have just been required to report, under
the law. He asked Fire Marshal Weger if he would like to testify.
CHESTER WEGER, Assistant State Fire Marshal, testifying from
Anchorage, stated the current program, which became effective in
1987 has never been funded and has not worked. There are only 14
places state-wide which have been placarded by the State Fire
Marshal's Office. Mr. Weger stated there are so many different
reporting programs and requirements, that no one is reporting to
the fire marshal's office, anyway. And the fire marshal's office
does not have the funding or the personnel to enforce the law.
SENATOR TAYLOR doesn't know why we are worrying about modifying it
to make it more user friendly, when it isn't being used or
enforced.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN thinks Mr. Weger was referring to the placarding
program.
MR. WEGER responded that is correct. There is a difference between
the reporting requirements and the placarding requirements.
Number 342
MS. KREITZER reiterated the reasons for passing SB 69.
Number 310
SENATOR HOFFMAN asked if it would be fair to say that SB 69 would
simply minimize an unfunded mandate.
SENATOR TAYLOR and CHAIRMAN LEMAN responded it would.
SENATOR TAYLOR said it doesn't help reduce it; it is another fees
bill.
MS. KREITZER responded, this law has been in effect since 1986.
The Municipality of Anchorage does have a fee program in place to
support placarding. Fees are already an option for municipalities.
A municipality is not required to take on a placarding program.
SENATOR TAYLOR noted his reason for debating it in the first place
is to see if they could make it more user friendly for the people
who sent us here. Mr. Mystrom did not send him to this place; as
a consequence, he is more interested in alleviating burdensome
regulations than in making them better.
SENATOR FRANK asked if the committee could establish a subcommittee
on SB 69 consisting of Senator Taylor and Senator Taylor.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN informed the committee that Senator Taylor could
request that in Judiciary Committee, if he would like to do so.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked if SB 69 had been referred to the Judiciary
Committee.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN responded no, but Senator Taylor can request that
the bill go to the Judiciary Committee, if he wishes. The chairman
expressed a desire to move the bill from committee.
[There is debate over whether or not the subject should be brought
before congress.]
SENATOR TAYLOR thinks a reporting requirement 20 times higher than
that required by the federal government is terrible.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked Ms. Kreitzer if, in her work with businesses
and the public on SB 69, she heard from anyone that the reporting
requirements were excessive.
MS. KREITZER replied she never received any feedback from all the
companies and organizations she worked with in developing this
legislation indicating that the reporting requirements were
excessive.
Number 251
SENATOR FRANK stated he would like to make sure the little guys can
handle the requirements.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN responded that all that is being done, is to make it
a little bit easier.
SENATOR FRANK and SENATOR TAYLOR both expressed the thought that
maybe it could be improved a great deal, rather than a little bit.
SENATOR FRANK asked why we wouldn't lower the requirement to the
federal standards. We do nothing but complain around here about
the fact that we're going further than the feds.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked Ms. Kreitzer if there is any reason why that
shouldn't be changed.
MS. KREITZER responded that the only reason not to change it would
be the Municipality of Anchorage's position.
SENATOR TAYLOR stated he is concerned that only big companies have
expressed approval. He noted an example where big companies
approved of a program (Leaking Underground Storage Tank Program),
and the program ended up putting small businesses out of business.
Senator Taylor stated no one is enforcing the law, so why would we
want to make it better.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN noted that paragraph (4) gives municipalities the
option of requiring smaller quantities to be reported.
SENATOR LINCOLN thinks the committee is going nowhere really fast.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN stated he had planned to be further along.
SENATOR LINCOLN asked if the chairman was planning to move the bill
from committee today.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN responded he had been.
SENATOR LINCOLN commented maybe it wasn't such a bad idea to have
a subcommittee.
SENATOR FRANK asked if the bill could just be amended to 10,000;
where would the amendment go?
MS. KREITZER responded the amendment would go on page 3, line 6.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked if that is the only amount where we have
higher requirements than the federal...500 to 10,000.
SENATOR TAYLOR made a motion to amend SB 69 by changing the number
500 to the number 10,000 on page 3, line 6.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked what materials, other than those described in
Section 4, (c)(1) that consists of. Is there a list of those
materials?
MS. KREITZER replied there is a definition under the definitions
section. She says they are huge lists.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked Ms. Kreitzer if she knows of any reason the
amendment should not be adopted.
MS. KREITZER responded that a municipality would still have the
option of lowering the amount that must be reported.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked if there was any objection to the amendment.
Hearing none, the chairman stated the amendment had been adopted.
The chairman asked if there was further discussion.
SENATOR LINCOLN noted that line 10 specified 500 pounds also.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN informed Senator Lincoln that number is a federal
requirement. The only number that was different from the federal
requirement has been changed.
[It is clarified that the rest of the requirements are federal
requirements, other than the requirement for compressed gasses,
which is a requirement of the Municipality of Anchorage. Ms.
Kreitzer does not believe there is a federal requirement on
compressed gasses.]
SENATOR TAYLOR thinks he has 200 cubic feet of compressed gas at
his house.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN thinks he has it here.
SENATOR TAYLOR responded, yes, but he can't keep it compressed. He
commented the committee is losing people. Senator Taylor stated he
would like to know what the federal requirement is on that, if any.
MS. KREITZER does not believe there is a requirement on that.
SENATOR TAYLOR thinks, if this will be applied statewide, paragraph
(6) on page 3 should be deleted. If Anchorage wants to impose it,
they are still free to do so.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked the fire marshal if he had a comment on that.
FIRE MARSHAL WEGER responded, so far as he is aware, that language
is not a federal requirement.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN has a question with paragraph (4). That language
just specifies that municipalities can require the reporting of
lower quantities, not other substances.
SENATOR TAYLOR thinks it would still be within a municipality's
authority to require another substance to be reported, even if not
in the bill.
[That situation is compared to Article 10 of the U.S.
Constitution.]
SENATOR TAYLOR clarified that he suggested deleting paragraph (6)
on page 3 as motion to amend SB 69.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked if there was any objection to that amendment
(amendment #2). Hearing none, the chairman stated amendment #2 had
been adopted.
SENATOR HALFORD commented that if the committee cut one more line,
they could shorten the bill to four pages.
SENATOR TAYLOR replied he was looking.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN said they didn't want to take out the repealer line.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked the fire marshal if there are other items in
SB 69 that are not federal requirements.
FIRE MARSHAL WEGER responded there are none that he's aware of.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked the fire marshal if there are any federal
requirements that are less stringent than those in SB 69.
FIRE MARSHAL WEGER replied, no.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked the fire marshal if he thought the bill had
been pretty well cleaned up.
FIRE MARSHAL WEGER responded, yes.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked if there was further committee discussion.
Number 055
SENATOR TAYLOR made a motion to discharge SB 69 from the Senate
Resources Committee with individual recommendations.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN, hearing no objection, stated SB 69 was discharged
from committee with individual recommendations.
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